Lore...integral to an MMO, or extraneous?

I agree with everything. And don't get me wrong, I don't want dozens of 50 page books of lore laying around the world. But maybe a half page here or there. That really has nothing to do with my character, OR perhaps something about the types of creatures I'll face when I get to a certain area.

I'm heading to the black swamp. I find a book with a half page detailing the creatures and plants of the locale, specifically detailing that I will find a plant that yields "The Berry of Red Vision". Getting there, sure, I'll be able to figure it out. Whether I read it in a book of lore or not. But, I now know something about the place I'm going, before I go.

I would like to say one other thing here: Alot of my wants/desires for lore are based off single player games. MMOs are, obviously, a very different beast all together.

Been thinking about lore lately. And It is something that needs to be there for an MMO like Copernicus (from what I know at least), That's obvious.

But Ngruk does get it, it's not what lore you have, or how much. It's how it's presented.

To that point, this is how I believe lore should be delivered...

1. On a requested Basis: Force feeding anyone anything will drive them to hate it. That's just fact. Forcing someone to listen to lore when they just want to start slaughtering, or forcing them to read a box of text before they can go on their way will just serve to dis allure them. Lore should be available only when sought out. References to lore can and should be used in quest text. Titles of books, or the name of a hero dropped from time to time. Whet the appetite of those who care. Coupled with fewer quests this would become quite powerful.

a. If you MUST give them lore remember that just passing off the need to know information is all you need. A single script scratched out on a strip of paper can be all you need. "They are coming..." anyone?

2. Available during down time or off line: Vanguard had these stories written by members of the team posted out on their site. Some were simple, some were silly. Some were masterpieces that literally had me demanding to exist in their world at that very moment. One in particular, but more on that later. I read all those short stories, again and again and drank in the knowledge of that world. Why? Because I couldn't log in, patches or away from my home computer, or something. It made me long to live in that world, logging in was an excitement I could barely contain. Until I got in of course, but still. Giving us time to read a page or two of lore while resting or while LFG, it will increase the love for the lore and make it all the more moving.

3. New and rare lore: Adding in stories of the changing world, and/or uncovering lost texts and transcripts will do much to keep people interested. In fact having it so when a player completes a quest to piece together a lost tome somewhere, then having that tome begin to appear across the globe would be amazing.

4. Tying it all together: This is most important. It's not really how to deliver the lore but I felt it was so important I couldn't leave it out. Vanguards biggest let down for me. They had these GREAT stories, the particular one I mentioned earlier, was Willem's Stand. An enchanting story of the city of Old Targonor. A story that captured my imagination and was my number one focus of playing Vanguard. I overlooked bugs, lack of content and a plethora of other issues for the chance to explore Old Targonor and see the stage of that story. Let down is not a powerful enough phrase to explain my disappointment upon entering in to Old Targonor.

It was incomplete and worst of all nothing fit the description of the story. It was supposed to be a city on a field, instead it was on a cost. There were supposed to be two gates, there was one. There was no reference to the lore in that city, no willem's armor, or ghost of the king around to further the story. It became just a good story and I try to block out my memories of that place. Do not let this happen.

I think one thing that would be great for lore, besides making it directly affect my character, is to find new and clever ways to introduce it. Once you get someone involved and make it significant, it probably takes care of itself if the player is even remotely interested in lore. I know once I'm involved in a story as a player, I'm definitely going to read to the end.

I loved the diplomacy system in Vanguard as a way to introduce lore... playing a mini-game, advancing my character and gaining useful loot, and being INVOLVED in a story... all at once. Good stuff.

Sure, a few folks are always going to blow through the game and not take in the lore. I don't think a game should be designed to stop those people or even to force things on them. Let them go... design the game for the audience that will appreciate it for what it is.

Aruzpex and Cookie did a great job with Diplo, didn't they? /sigh

Personally I think the story is merely a small backdrop in the MMO world these days. There are so many quest and nothing you do actually effects the STATIC WORLD your playing in, its almost second nature to care about the story.

Sure I would love to see the MMORPG genre get back to the basics, but with the ridiculous level caps I don't see this...

For example, create a game in which case leveling is not the most important thing, its advancing the story and making a difference to the world around you. In D&D the EPIC LEVEL was 20+..... I am speaking of the desktop game....Therefore the appeal was not a level cap but the Character Development and the story....If an MMO could master this and make the player feel like they are really apart of a living breathing world, it would eliminate the GRIND (which is simply boring game play)....

So I do agree with the initial post, I too would like to see the STORY be the driving force in an MMO rather then just a backdrop....How does a game even claim to be an RPG when the story is relevant? I would much rather kill a dragon saving a village, rather then get 20k xp only to have it respawn 5minutes later....That is very defeating...

I would like to add that it would be nice to have quest that reward you with certain abilities or skills not just xp, and based on each characters decisions the abilities or skills could differ... And quest that can be handled in several different ways....i.e. the console game Mass Effect...You could complete missions in a variety of ways each offering a different out come based on your actions...This is RPG like and very rewarding...Just an after thought....

Originally Posted by IrishBrewed

Personally I think the story is merely a small backdrop in the MMO world these days. There are so many quest and nothing you do actually effects the STATIC WORLD your playing in, its almost second nature to care about the story.

Sure I would love to see the MMORPG genre get back to the basics, but with the ridiculous level caps I don't see this...

For example, create a game in which case leveling is not the most important thing, its advancing the story and making a difference to the world around you. In D&D the EPIC LEVEL was 20+..... I am speaking of the desktop game....Therefore the appeal was not a level cap but the Character Development and the story....If an MMO could master this and make the player feel like they are really apart of a living breathing world, it would eliminate the GRIND (which is simply boring game play)....

So I do agree with the initial post, I too would like to see the STORY be the driving force in an MMO rather then just a backdrop....How does a game even claim to be an RPG when the story is relevant? I would much rather kill a dragon saving a village, rather then get 20k xp only to have it respawn 5minutes later....That is very defeating...

I would like to add that it would be nice to have quest that reward you with certain abilities or skills not just xp, and based on each characters decisions the abilities or skills could differ... And quest that can be handled in several different ways....i.e. the console game Mass Effect...You could complete missions in a variety of ways each offering a different out come based on your actions...This is RPG like and very rewarding...Just an after thought....

Horizons almost had this right..... I was involved with a number of community projects that both opened up new areas and also heavily involved with our guild village It was really immersive as you could see the bridge growing, etc. And it literally took the entire server to get the big things done. I remember a tunnel that had to be excavated and re-inforced to open a big new area. It was in a fairly nasty high lvl zone so you had to have a good number of fighters to keep all the crafters safe. Then you had couriers who take processed resources to the crafters at the site..... and all the crafters who are doing the processing, and then ultimately all those who harvested the raw resources. This was not something that one guild could do, it literally required the co-operation of all the top guilds and really, anyone who wanted to help It reeally made for an awesome sense of community.


I really enjoyed my time in Horizons, they did a lot of things right......But in the end they ran out of money and devs And yes it was buggy Another great concept doomed to fail for lack of investment.

I hope that any of you 38S guys who read this also look at so-called failed games for ideas, many of them have excellent ideas and mechanics that only failed due to lack of resources.

I think the idea is right through this whole post. What some people fail to realize is that if you were actually in a world like WOW you wouldn't get to hear all about every single little detail of both sides. There is no question that you need lore in a game, to know why your people hates and wants to fight these other people.

I would like to see a game kinda like Fable, where you actually have a starting area where you are a younger version of yourself. Then as you progress through there area you learn of your enemies and slowly of the surounding area and the creatures or people who are your immediate enemies. Then as you progress further, you then learn of the farther away places that you may want to visit and make them seem majestic or alluring. Like the last few people have said. Even if you don't start young and then grow a little older, just treat it like a book then and start off with a little knowledge of the world and slowly work it in for people. Instead of treating it like a game, treat it like a book where you would get some background information and then build on it as you go.

Don't be afraid of having world events, I know that you want everyone to see everything, but at the same time that makes it feel repetitive and loses meaning. Maybe have a long drawn out battle with front lines and everything that actually ends over time. I did love the battlegrounds of WOW when they came out, but because you did them over and over again they lost their meaning. They became just another way to advance and get gear.

My only personal experience with a them trying to show the world growing was then the isles came out and each server tried to race to see who could open the new content first in WOW. Though even that didn't have the right feel toward it, it felt like they just added stuff, instead of going in and actually seeing it progress. Just some thoughts.

World events are good!!