If you could give 38 just one piece of advice...

Originally Posted by Laethyn

The moment you have the developer dictating how the site looks...

I don't think anyone suggested what you are saying. I did miss a few posts, so I will have to read the full thread again.

...how the user is tracked, and what data is garnered, it no longer becomes a fansite.

I guess my question would be, why do you feel that metric data is in oposition to fansite communities? Or, why does sharing metric data make a fansite, not a fansite?

I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but just honest. I can't see any way that these things would fly. Indeed, I'd be willing to bet that when you have a developers fingers all over the fansites, in such a way, it's going to leave a bad taste in the mouths of fans.

I am curious as to what experiances you might have that lead you to belive that sharing metrics would leave a bad taste in gamers mouths.

Can you name any communities that currently have had a bad experiance with their metrics being shared with developers?

Can you name ones that currently do so and have no issues?

Its one thing to come and join in if they choose, but to demand that the fansite follow a specific format or they won't join? Or what? Get shut down? No thanks. I'm all for the companies providing fansite kits, but my no means should they be a requirement.

I don't think a developer could shut down a fansite (though I've heard some developers try), and I don't think anyone said anything about requiring fansites to use fansite kits, but maybe I misunderstood your post.

By giving a couple of "suggested platforms" you are dictating the site and its functionality.

What I'm saying is that the developer dictating what stats are tracked, and how the stats are used, it's no longer up to the fansite, as, by your definition, the developer is saying "Track X". That means the developer is running how your site works.

Let me repost my statement, with some bolding, so its easier to read:

I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but just honest. I can't see any way that these things would fly. Indeed, I'd be willing to bet that when you have a developers fingers all over the fansites, in such a way, it's going to leave a bad taste in the mouths of fans.

My point is, if the developer wants to have their fingers in a site or forum, then build their own. Fansites are just that, fansites. Run BY the fans, FOR the fans.

I ran a fansite years ago for a game. A couple of the development team came and joined. I was happy to have them. One started being a jerk. I merrily banned him and went on my way. He seemed under the assumption that just because he was part of the development team, he could do as he pleased. He was visiting MY website. Could the company have shut me down? Possibly. But to what gain?

Again, my point is, I would rather see them have their own forum, be a part of it, and perhaps poke their noses in to fansites randomly, then have them focus so much energy in the dozens of fansites that may crop up.

In my opinion, no matter which way you cut it, they are going to leave a bad taste in someones mouth. They spend so much energy on dozens of sites that bugs aren't being fixed, fans are pissed off ("Hey, quit posting and fix bug XXX!!") or they focus on a few fansites, and the others feel left out ("Hey, join my forum! What is so good about that one???").

Not a good position to be in. I would say build an official forum, have certain "fans" be mods/admins, and stay away from posting as much as possible.

I don't have enough time to post about everything here, but in terms of what happened with Spheres, I can speak on with a tiny bit of knowledge!

Sigil didn't tell us anything about what format to use, what we could or could not say (exactly), what forum software to use (actually, Piro was one that helped some of the others know how to interface RSS and stuff to their particular sites) or what looks or forums to set up.

We were under an NDA pre-release, of course, of what we saw when we visited the company and we were under easily-dealt-with rules that not all of the sites adhered to. (Remember me saying we had been called "web nazi's" before by those who didn't like rules!?) We actually had devs that posted more on our site than we would ever have taken the liberties to do, but that's what made it so much fun! We gave folks the tools to stay in touch and discuss and then sat back, did a ton of interviews, articles (all of which I need to send roses or something to Piro to let me have permission to pull off, since Spheres is no longer ) got special release screenies and monitored what was said/posted after that.

Now, I will say that I also am involved with band sites and one in particular, ReverbNation.com, does have a way to track things. HOWEVER....when you sign up for the email/fan lists, it asks you for permission, basically, to do all that. It's your choice if you want to be registered or not. Not a mandate! You can still see what the band is doing, tho! We are able to track the demographics of our users thru this, which is cool, but they only have to give minimal info.

I don't think that many sites block people who are not game users from checking out what's going on. Some of the forums within the site, maybe, but how do you expect them to really find out about the game(s) in order to figure out if they want to shell out $XX.00 or not? Money is a bit harder to come by right now, especially, and I want to see and find out as much as I can before I give someone $50!! I can still buy a lot of groceries with that! We've been involved with a lot of games (beta and after) among us and I think you'll find out that it's a bit more open than originally thought.

...and if I don't get my shoes on and out the door, I'm going to be later for my paying job!

See you soon! Thanks for the discussion and comments!

My favorite piece of advice for any creative endeavor is - listen to everyone, think for yourself.

That means you will not always find the best answers on your own. You need lots of input from many different sources, but you need the ability to evaluate, analyze, think through, and judge lots of input and come to a conclusion on what is the best path forward on your own.

Nothing is created from nothing. Great inventions don't spring to the inventor's mind in a dream. It's hard work and takes skill to gather ideas, think through important decisions, and evaluate accurately, but there will be a huge difference in the end result if this is done right.

That's why they hire a team

Originally Posted by Laethyn

That's why they hire a team

True, but in many teams input is not solicited from all potential sources. And decisions are often made poorly and for the wrong reasons (show of power, political, etc.).

Also, what I'm talking about goes way beyond the team. Even if they have 50 or 100 experienced, smart people, there are many places to find ideas outside of the team. I'm talking about critically looking at lots of other games and seeing what they might use (not copy) and mold into their game. Also looking at what doesn't work in other games and not using that (or changing it to make it work). I'm talking about books, friends, and even online game forums. Maybe only a few % of ideas in a game forum are good, and only a few % of these would fit in their game, but that's probably enough to make them worth-while resources for game developers.

They also have to be very careful about that.

It's the same reason why people like Bob Salvatore, Elaine Cunningham, Thomas Reid, Erik Scott de Bie, Christie Golden, James Lowder (these are the ones I've talked to recently), etc don't read fanfiction, and are extremely careful with what they read online. The potential legal can of worms is just to much of a risk

My only advice would be to change the current formula of the MMO genre by making a simulated world instead of a calculated one.

In no way shape or form should you attempt to be the WoW killer. Find your own niche and plant that seed and you will fair much better than games like Vanguard, Age of Conan and Warhammer.